Friday, September 17, 2021
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Something’s Rotten In Washington, And It’s Called Leadership

John Boehner lied to the American people. He blackmailed his own caucus with the fear of a thing over which he has complete control (H.R. 1297) and he gave up on a winnable issue vis. defunding Planned Parenthood, willingly and publicly trading dead babies for dollars, choosing instead to use both the Abortion issue AND the “Support the Troops” issue as bargaining chips in a poorly played game of chance. And, in all this, he believes he staved off a Government shutdown that many of us enthusiastically anticipated. The good news here is that it’s not too late for We, the People to force a shutdown ourselves…through our Representatives that should be fairly well ticked off right about now…sometime around the middle of this week.

At 10:30 pm est on Friday, April 8th House Speaker John Boehner announced to the media that he’d reached a deal to prevent the shutdown of the terminally ill Federal Government…heroic measures and all that. He did so nearly 2 hours before there were any votes cast on the floor of the House, and (roughly) an hour after Jennifer Rubin (member of the same media) told us not only that there was a deal but what was actually in it. How did she know before any of our Representatives in Congress knew? And why did she go live an hour before Boehner?

This stinks of a dead catfish, rotting on a river bank in August, somewhere in Mississippi.

Boehner’s been telling his caucus (as late as Friday night whilst still in the middle of negotiations…allegedly) that the only way to pay the troops was to cut this deal. This blackmail did not impress very many members of the GOP caucus. What most of the caucus already knew was that a separate bill put forth by Gohmert and Kingston was already on the books, laying in wait for just the right time to be brought up. I say “most of the caucus” because we know there are 153 co-sponsors of H.R. 1297. How then, given what’s coming to light, did Boehner get some of those co-sponsors to agree to the deal? And why did he (Boehner) shelve that bill himself? Inquiring minds want to know. And, to that point, we need to ask a more fundamental question.

The vote Boehner called after midnight, and after this deal of his was struck, was a vote on consideration of a Senate amendment that hasn’t even been made public anywhere that I can find (no Senate activity of any public sort since Wednesday). Ironically, Boehner’s midnight oil vote was associated…not with a CR (which hasn’t even been written yet) to continue funding the Government, but… with the very same bill Obama promised just one day earlier that he would veto. Worse, this bill alone is enough to guarantee the Troops would get paid since it’s the Defense appropriations bill itself (H.R.1363). So, again, what the bloody hell is Boehner up to? And the rest of these transparent members of leadership?

Obama threatens to veto a bill the House then approves after getting promised cuts that aren’t on any public document in the Senate…and gets the GOP caucus to sign on to a CR that hasn’t even been written yet…to prevent the interruption of Soldier paychecks they, ultimately, guarantee by voting in favor of the bill?

Anyone else confused?

For my money, and given what we’re beginning to hear more about, I suggest we tell every one of our Representatives to vote NO…a resounding NO…when the official CR comes up (sometime around mid-week) because it will send a message to the President, the Speaker, and the Senate majority leader: We will not be played.

Soldiers are going to get their paychecks now…let everyone else get a little time-out to sort through their email inboxes and phone logs and be reminded of who runs the country; We, the People.

Vote no on the CR. Shut it down.

haystackhttp://unwashedphilosopher@gmail.com
There's not much to say... I come from a long line of Appalachian folk that landed in America long before flipping off the King was even a twinkle in the eyes of our founding fathers. We have been Carpenters and coal miners... Soldiers & Sailors and pig farmers and Sunday morning circuit-riding preachers. Hell, I'm told we have even been fairly decent bootleggers too.

21 COMMENTS

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21 COMMENTS

  1. Of all the things I would most like to say about this, none of them are polite enough to be printed on this blog. What I will say instead is that the human spirit wishes to believe in goodness and heroes, and so we are inclined to think, to hope, that our “leaders” will make decisions from that basis– on what is good and right. And that they will be willing to fall on their swords as a hero would in order to get the right thing done.

    I have a dog who has finally seen the wisdom in not killing anymore of our chickens, now that he is older, wiser and tired of getting smacked for chicken-killing. He is more of a hero than this bunch.

  2. I also wonder why the promise of a floor vote on healthcare popped out of nowhere on the day after the deal was announced. I wondered about it yesterday, and I’m still wondering about it now. I can only think that it was part of the deal but that leadership and/or the president did not want it to be thought of as part of the deal. But to my mind, how could it not have been a significant part of the deal?

    While pondering this over last evening, it occurred to me that the reason the riders where the first thing that Boehner said had been “almost all already resolved,” in that “this question is so ‘been there, done that’ tone of voice–the reason, I say, is that Reid had capitulated on holding the floor vote on Obamacare, leaving only the money scuffle.

    My opinion is that Obama was dug in on the amount to be cut, and the riders/Ocare floor vote were fought to a draw first.

    Remember, the budget is Obama’s sandbox and spending is his treasure trove from which the nastiness of power politics is played.

    I wonder.

    Could there be two stinking catfish in the picture?

  3. Even West doesn’t make the main point on the matter of military pay, and I agree with him that we should have had a stand alone bill on that issue. But Boehner, West and our whole caucus and patriotic Democrats should be all over Obama for his threat to categorize the military as non-essential in case of a shutdown. Even if no bill funding the military were passed and we had a shutdown, Obama could pay the military. I covered this here on UP days ago. Boehner is not the Listener of the House that he promised to be.

    • Missed your original piece Mike…apologies for that.

      As you point out, even West got a shiv over this. He had no choice but to vote yes to the Def. bill (‘scuse me…Senate amendment TO the bill-an amendment that isn’t public so far as I know) and yet, as a co-sponsor of the separate “fund the Troops” bill, he made it clear he would have preferred to have left that out separately precisely so these quick change artists running the place couldn’t pull a fast one on him.

      To your larger point…yes-a shut down would have been far preferable to the mess we have now…and the Soldiers could have still been paid-or their CinC held out singly and solely to blame.

      A lot of opportunities were lost Friday. We can STILL force the issue mid-week, though, and I think we should.

  4. I’m taken by the fact that so many conservatives believe Boehner stunk up the gym while others felt he acquitted himself and the conservative cause pretty well, ‘Stack.

    There will be an Act II, and III, at least, still to be played. But for the next 19 months we have to play the cards we’re dealt. I hope we’re not circling up early.

    I’m for building these guys up while tearing Harry & Co down in that period.

    • I agree, in part, Vassar…but here’s where we disagree.

      If Boehner willfully misled his caucus into voting for something that falls far short of what we already had on the table, then he’s in the wrong business. You and I both know what positions we most desire to be in when negotiations commence.

      The American people sent the GOP to the majority with a message; clean up our House and put things back in order.

      If Boehner lied, both to the American people and to the dutiful soldiers he was elected to lead, in order to get an inadequate amount of cuts (because he promised cuts for the sake of them with little regard to ancillary issues a LOT of other people care a great deal about) when he was in a position to get far more AND satisfy both the FisCons AND the SoCons, then he is not going to effectively lead over those 19 months you’re holding on to with that much-deserved hope and optimism. And he won’t be trusted by his own people in the House…nor on the streets and backroads of America at large.

      I can’t see the benefit of building up that sort of person. He, if these things are true, is an example of the problem…not what was elected to be the key element of the solution.

      • That’s been my position from Day one, ‘Stack, so we agree. Boehner doesn’t work for us, but for the members. That’s why we also agree on Bachmann’s hamming it up offstage. It does appear Boehner may have flim-flammed the freshmen especially, in which case, he may have just screwed the pooch, for I will never have any respect for any of them who let him off the hook.

        That said, it is also in-House, esp since we can’t entirely know. I believe when a man cheats, you either divorce him, in public, or you put his ass at the foot of the cross (which is more likely), for a long, long time. You extend only the left hand of good fellowship. And you refuse flowers and candy. It’s none of the neighbors’ business.

        But us, we want the team to stay together and not rupture this early in the season. Watch and pray.

        Me, I’ll save the “Go to hell’s” for Harry & co until other members of the House wash their hands in Boehner. They’re the ones who have the play the hand out.

    • Even given what they may have been “betrayed” over, I don’t think it would be justified to vote against the deal now, given what they had already swallowed and were willing to vote for, and have the obvious reason for the shutdown be more about an internal GOP squabble rather than how we are so much better than Obama-Reid. We lost the moment to have a meaningful confrontation within the caucus and with the Dems weeks, if not months ago. I think now its best to emphasize the positives of this bill and go forward. In private, the tea partiers need to gain more influence over the strategy going forward which needs to include planning not only for a shutdown over the 2012 budget, but also what we do in week three of the shutdown. But this whole incident says to me that I now lean a bit more toward winning 2012 than thinking we can actually get enough real policy changes before then to save the economy. more later

      • I liken this to a not-so-good junior QB at Clemson looking at a 5-7/6-6 season, with a very good (but untried) prospect waiting in the wings for next season. The good ball coach will try to get all the mileage he can out of the QB…you know. so when they finish 7-5 and get to play Mississippi School for the Deaf in the Chiquita Banana Bowl, the kid comes out as a Sr and makes the freshman dynamo a better QB because he had to work hard to beat him out . Everyone wins all around. That’s good coaching.

        Or the coach can remind the kid everyday that his mother is a better passer and takes a seven month holiday waiting for next season, and take it public on Channel 5. When Boehner screws up he needs to be taken to the closet, but no further. If he lies, I think the freshman can deal with him.

        It’s not our job, at least for 19 months.

        • I would be happy with a lying Speaker if he got better results! smile, but seriously

          The best things to me that we got are that we will force senate dems to vote on issues that could help doom them in 2012.

  5. I believe that Boehner started off with the agreement of the entire caucus that they want to have a floor vote on Obamacare with as much in cuts as possible and riders as well, but on riders, the support in the caucus was not entire.

    I believe that Obama started off with the agreement of the entire D caucus that they wouldn’t allow riders and that only minimal cuts were to be allowed.

    Boehner had to give up the riders to save the Ocare floor vote in order to keep everyone on board. The back and forth on the $ was face-saving for both sides because both sides gave up a lot. But I think Obama gave up more. The election of 2012 will tip in our favor even more once people see who wants to fund healhcare and spend us into oblivion and who does not. We just have to work it.

  6. The Liberals in Washington never passed a 2011 budget, despite the fact that they could easily have done so with controlling the House, Senate and WH. I suggest that the “bi-partisan” Debt Commission Obama insisted on, despite a vote against it’s inception, didn’t quite work out the way Obama and his handlers expected. To date he has ignored most or all of their recommendations. He was never serious about cutting the debt.

    In February, the House Republicans passed a spending cut bill for $61 billion dollars, and they were taken to the cleaners by many because it wasn’t the $100 billion promised during election season. It was utterly stupid for them to make that promise to begin with, unless they foolishly believed that we could have somehow miraculously gained a super majority in the Senate, that could override an Obama veto. There weren’t enough seats up for re-election in 2010 to accomplish that.

    The Republicans in the House have passed bill after bill, including defunding Planned Parenthood, defunding the IRS from enforcing the individual mandate, to defund NPR, to overturn the FCC regulations, to cut funding for federal health exchanges, and most importantly, they passed a bill to completely repeal Obamacare. As far as I know, the only bill passed in the Senate was to get rid of the 1099 requirement included in the Obamacare bill. Don’t know if Obama signed that bill.

    Reid in fact did bring the $61 billion spending cut bill up for a vote, it failed. How about going after the Republicans that voted against that bill? He also brought to a vote, the Liberal bill to cut $6 million from spending, that failed also.

    From what I’ve read, Obama’s DOD sent a directive to the Pentagon, instructing them to classify our military members as non-essential, in the event of a government shutdown. Don’t know when that happened, but, I do know that Gates told our troops in Afghanistan, that if the government shut down, their pay would be delayed. That was a radical departure from the Reagan directive that declared our military members to be considered essential personnel in the case of a government shut down. Even Bill Clinton used that Reagan declaration, and paid our military members, on time, in the 95 government shut downs, in pece time. This President has never displayed the first bit of respect for our military, now involved in three wars, one completely of Obama’s making, and clearly held them, and their family members hostage for political purposes.

    I disagree with Rep. Allen West when he said on an interview, that he was dissapointed with the leadership, in his own party, meaning Boehner, that he had the opportunity to pass a stand alone bill to fund the military through the rest of the year. He said Boehner had 100 days to bring that vote, and pass that bill. How much chance does Rep. West believe there was of Reid even bringing up a bill to fund our military, for the rest of the year, and removing Obama’s, and the Liberals biggest bargaining chip with respect to paying our military, when Obama already declared them non-essential? I find it interesting that Rep. West still voted for the short term bill on Friday night. Will someone please explain to me just exactly how Boehner used our military as leverage, when Obama already declared them to be non-essential. Obama alone had the choice to pay the troops or not. It was completely his choice.

    For those that want to string Boehner up on the nearest tree, I ask, what were the options? Please explain to me just exactly what would have been the better option for Boehner? There have been many saying that the Liberals were itching for a government shutdown. There is no question that there were many Republicans expounding the mantra “Cut it, or shut it.” I’ve read Tea Party after Tea Party comment saying, we have your back Boehner if you just shut it down. I could have gone along with that if Obama didn’t put our military members, and their familes in a hostage situation. I really could care less if Biden had to cut his staff from 75 to 25. I really could care less that the Smithsonian would have been closed. I really could care less that Yellowstone Park would have been closed. I would never, ever agree that our military members, and their families would suffer more than even grandma. Obama’s handlers knew exactly what they were doing when they went against our military. The evil bastage knew that not many would see our military members put in a box.

    Now, the way I see the posts wanting to hang Boehner, and everyone of the Republicans that voted for this terrible deal, is that we should forget the gains we made in the House in 2010. Throw all those disgusting bums out, and let’s start over with a new batch that will honor our demands. Be aware that not only will your feet be held to the fire, you will be in the fire, up to your knees, just in case you think about not doing what we demanded you to do. How exactly does that get us to the majorities we need to have to stop the Progressive march in the US in 2012? If I were one of the newbies in Congress, at this point I’d be asking myself if I want to continue to be a robot.

    • Ok, SEC. Let’s see if I have this right.

      We made gains in the House. All is well, and we should be quite pleased with just whatever the Leader does because he’s, well, you know, a Republican and all. Let us not criticize the conduct of our employees for they know far more than we do about how to do the job we pay them to do than we could ever hope to imagine.

      Sign me up for the blank checks-I’ll sign ’em and go play golf.
      < /snark>

      Seriously though…we can’t just abdicate our responsibility to evaluate their performance, and take them to task when they not only choose NOT to do what we asked…but lie to us and to eachother as they go about not accomplishing what we were promised. Surely you can see that just having gains means nothing if those gains give us more of what we’ve been fed for the past 6 years.

      We don’t need incremental nickel and dime cuts…we need major amputations of monstrous expenditures that are bankrupting our grandchildren. You really think this is the best we can do? Really?

      • haystack- Do you have proof that “they” lied to us short of your timeline scenario? Please address the Obama declaration that our military members are non-essential. Please address the fact that the Republicnans in the House have been remiss in passing bill after bill, only to see no action on those bills in the Senate. Most importantly, please address what you hoped to achieve by a government shut down. What plan was there in place in case the Liberals held on for the long fight, and kept the government shut down. They wanted a shut down, no? Would the Republicans have come out smelling like roses with Reid, and the MSM, making the shut down appear to be only over the PP funding for DC? What number between 61 and 38 billion would you have accepted, or maybe none? Do you think that “standing on principle” and keeping the government shut down would have benefited the Republicans, when military family, after military family would have been used as the scape goats. What part of Rep. West’s admonishment, that the Republican leadership was remiss in not bringing for a vote do you agree with? Do you think the Liberals would have passed a military spending bill, that would have passed the Senate, and would have been signed into law by Obama?

        Rather than just hanging Boehner, and those he fooled into voting with him, what would your alternative plan have been. Please be specific rather than just crucifying Boehner, and those that voted with him on Friday night. I’m really really interested in specifics here. Please tell me what your alternative plan would have been to make a better deal. What would you have done if the Liberals weren’t willing to deal, and every indication is that they weren’t. They would have done everything possible to hang the evil Republicans for the shut down. What if the shut down went for several weeks or months? Would you be willing to hang our soldiers, and their familes out to dry?

        I just want someone to explain to me what plans/scenarios the Boehner hangers would have in place in the case that the Liberals had dug in their heals for the long haul, which they seemed to have done.

        • Well, SEC, your list of questions requires a Doctoral thesis in order to sufficiently answer, due to all the downline effects of any answer I’d give..and all the extenuating circumstances that might arise. I’m going to try it this way instead.

          If, tomorrow, the Federal Government shut down, would you be unable to go to the gas station and fill up your car? Would you be unable to go to work? Would your kids, if you have them, be unable to go to school? Would you not be allowed to go to the grocery store…or the bank…or Starbucks…or call or text your friends and family on your cell phone? Would you be unable to stare at your computer screen and type an email, or a comment at this site or any other? You know the answer to this is, by and large, NO. The Federal Government is not an intimate part of your day to day normal living activities. Nor is it part of mine or anyone else’s…save for the Military and the Diplomat teams spread round the world. But ask yourself this…do you honestly believe that Obama would withhold paychecks to the Military? Really?

          And if he did…play that out in your mind. He has 3 wars – 2 he inherited, and that jumbled mess of his own design in Libya. Do you really think the whole thing just stops…the GI’s and the Embassy employees all around the world just lay down their arms, hand over the keys to the tanks and the jets…or to the embassies and all the data and hardware and comms equipment and all the intel…to our enemies and just load up their duffle bags and start hitchhiking back to the states? And, even if THAT happened…do you really think Obama wouldn’t be up on charges with impeachment proceedings already underway? He simply can not do what you are wringing your hands over. And he wouldn’t. And, there are laws in place to prevent him from allowing our blood and treasure on foreign soil to be just abandoned to the enemy because they have no arms or supplies. Or paychecks. It’s epically silly to think these threats you’ve fallen prey to would ever materialize.

          Not sure if you read my original post closely, but I provide links and named the bill that would have ensured that the troops got paid regardless a government shutdown. It was submitted on March 31…a full week and change before this mess from Friday night. It’s status? “Referred to the Committee on Armed Services, and in addition to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.”

          A little Google love and you’ll find out this bill would have passed the House AND most likely the Senate WELL in advance of this little confab of Boehner’s on Friday night. It was at HIS direction that the bill went to the dark depths of Committee hell, and its fate continues to rest in his hands…and his alone. Had that bill been played before Friday, the Government could have been allowed to shut down and the Soldier’s checks would have continued unabated by poor political leadership on both sides of the aisle and up the street on Pennsylvania Ave.

          So, in answering your question about what would happen and whether there was a plan to deal with a protracted shut down? The plans are all in place at the state level to tend to the needs of their respective citizens. And even if there weren’t step by step instructions on what to do without the Federal Government…how badly do you think you need them in order to function in your daily life anyway?

          In exchange for letting it shut down, the people that don’t pay attention to the mess they’ve helped make by either NOT participating in elections..or voting poorly in the ones they DO participate in….or NOT engaging their Representatives on matters of Legislation that effects us all…would soon learn just how little we need them (the existing form of our Government) after all, and just how much of it can be chopped off at the root so we can focus the money we DO have on the Government we’re long overdue for getting back.

          And I promise it wouldn’t take long-picture the people that would lose their unemployment, their welfare and their food stamps…their Social Security checks and their Medicare, Medicaid, and their part D meds. Think they have phones?

          If you think WE are pissed off…imagine how much more THEY would be. 2 weeks…4 tops…and these morons in DC would get the message in a real hurry.

          And, sorry you want me to cheerlead Boehner, but he doesn’t deserve it-he sold his caucus a bill of goods, and he sold out for far less than he needed to. He is our employee; idolizing Boehner and defending him this way solely on the premise that he is less bad than the alternative is a thing you’ll have to do alone m’lady.

  7. Thank you for your response haystack. The reason I asked the questions that I did was because I knew that you, me and no one else would have the answers to those questions, as the shutdown didn’t occur. Every answer would be guessing and speculation.

    I’m sorry you interpreted my posts as me being concerned about what consequences would have affected me in my personal life. I never gave those ideas the first thought. It isn’t about me.

    Yes, I absolutely believe that Obama would have delayed our military members pay. I’m fully aware that our military, on the battlefield especially, aren’t eligible for furlough. No, I wouldn’t expect any soldier to lay down his weapon on the battlefield and walk away because their pay was delayed. I give much more credit to them for their honor and duty and service to their country than to even entertain that thought. Again, that’s just silly.

    Haystack, we will just have to agree to disagree. I’m not a Boehner cheerleader. It is the incoming members of the 111th Congress that elected him the speaker. I had nothing to do with that. I had nothing to do with the choices of Committee Chairmen, other than to call and beg for some other choices. What I am not willing to do at this time is to go along with throwing him, and the House members that supported his “deal” under the bus. There are much bigger battles that will come up shortly to judge Boehner and the House members on. This was a skirmish, the 2012 budget, and the debt ceiling will be true wars to be fought against those that not only want to destroy the Republicans, but the country itself, and we have seen just how serious they are, and how far they will go to achieve their goals. It may be your choice to draw your line in the sand on Friday’s deal, or even the votes that will happen this week on that deal, but that is not my choice. I quite honestly don’t believe you get anything good out of people you’ve already thrown in the bonfire, that you still need to fight more and bigger battles. What hope do we have of many more gains in 2012 when we’ve already broadcast that the Republicans are nothing but a bunch of losers right out of the gate? I choose not to join in with the Liberals chorus.

    I understand you and I are coming at this from different angles, let’s just respectfully agree to let it there.

  8. Haystack- I kinda owe you a very big apology. Now that the info has been released on just what the “deal” was with the “cuts”, I foolishly argued against trashing Boehner when I believed we really did get cuts. I am now with you, and the outcry against the deal that I didn’t know what it included, which really weren’t cuts at all. I am now squarely in the camp of voting against the deal, and letting the government shut down. Unfortunately, if/when it does happen, it is going to negatively affect the Republicans more than the Democrats.

    I will admit that the biggest part of my arguments have been against going after Republicans because I want so desperately for Obama and his fellow Liberals to lose in 2012, and turning the Republican brand into something akin to evil and bad will not gain us anything in 2012. I am not in support of a third party, and, I especially don’t want the libertarians to overtake the party, mostly the Ron Paul type. How do we get rid of the Boehners and Cantors without giving in to the libertarians? That’s my question.

  1. Of all the things I would most like to say about this, none of them are polite enough to be printed on this blog. What I will say instead is that the human spirit wishes to believe in goodness and heroes, and so we are inclined to think, to hope, that our “leaders” will make decisions from that basis– on what is good and right. And that they will be willing to fall on their swords as a hero would in order to get the right thing done.

    I have a dog who has finally seen the wisdom in not killing anymore of our chickens, now that he is older, wiser and tired of getting smacked for chicken-killing. He is more of a hero than this bunch.

  2. I also wonder why the promise of a floor vote on healthcare popped out of nowhere on the day after the deal was announced. I wondered about it yesterday, and I’m still wondering about it now. I can only think that it was part of the deal but that leadership and/or the president did not want it to be thought of as part of the deal. But to my mind, how could it not have been a significant part of the deal?

    While pondering this over last evening, it occurred to me that the reason the riders where the first thing that Boehner said had been “almost all already resolved,” in that “this question is so ‘been there, done that’ tone of voice–the reason, I say, is that Reid had capitulated on holding the floor vote on Obamacare, leaving only the money scuffle.

    My opinion is that Obama was dug in on the amount to be cut, and the riders/Ocare floor vote were fought to a draw first.

    Remember, the budget is Obama’s sandbox and spending is his treasure trove from which the nastiness of power politics is played.

    I wonder.

    Could there be two stinking catfish in the picture?

  3. Even West doesn’t make the main point on the matter of military pay, and I agree with him that we should have had a stand alone bill on that issue. But Boehner, West and our whole caucus and patriotic Democrats should be all over Obama for his threat to categorize the military as non-essential in case of a shutdown. Even if no bill funding the military were passed and we had a shutdown, Obama could pay the military. I covered this here on UP days ago. Boehner is not the Listener of the House that he promised to be.

    • Missed your original piece Mike…apologies for that.

      As you point out, even West got a shiv over this. He had no choice but to vote yes to the Def. bill (‘scuse me…Senate amendment TO the bill-an amendment that isn’t public so far as I know) and yet, as a co-sponsor of the separate “fund the Troops” bill, he made it clear he would have preferred to have left that out separately precisely so these quick change artists running the place couldn’t pull a fast one on him.

      To your larger point…yes-a shut down would have been far preferable to the mess we have now…and the Soldiers could have still been paid-or their CinC held out singly and solely to blame.

      A lot of opportunities were lost Friday. We can STILL force the issue mid-week, though, and I think we should.

  4. I’m taken by the fact that so many conservatives believe Boehner stunk up the gym while others felt he acquitted himself and the conservative cause pretty well, ‘Stack.

    There will be an Act II, and III, at least, still to be played. But for the next 19 months we have to play the cards we’re dealt. I hope we’re not circling up early.

    I’m for building these guys up while tearing Harry & Co down in that period.

    • I agree, in part, Vassar…but here’s where we disagree.

      If Boehner willfully misled his caucus into voting for something that falls far short of what we already had on the table, then he’s in the wrong business. You and I both know what positions we most desire to be in when negotiations commence.

      The American people sent the GOP to the majority with a message; clean up our House and put things back in order.

      If Boehner lied, both to the American people and to the dutiful soldiers he was elected to lead, in order to get an inadequate amount of cuts (because he promised cuts for the sake of them with little regard to ancillary issues a LOT of other people care a great deal about) when he was in a position to get far more AND satisfy both the FisCons AND the SoCons, then he is not going to effectively lead over those 19 months you’re holding on to with that much-deserved hope and optimism. And he won’t be trusted by his own people in the House…nor on the streets and backroads of America at large.

      I can’t see the benefit of building up that sort of person. He, if these things are true, is an example of the problem…not what was elected to be the key element of the solution.

      • That’s been my position from Day one, ‘Stack, so we agree. Boehner doesn’t work for us, but for the members. That’s why we also agree on Bachmann’s hamming it up offstage. It does appear Boehner may have flim-flammed the freshmen especially, in which case, he may have just screwed the pooch, for I will never have any respect for any of them who let him off the hook.

        That said, it is also in-House, esp since we can’t entirely know. I believe when a man cheats, you either divorce him, in public, or you put his ass at the foot of the cross (which is more likely), for a long, long time. You extend only the left hand of good fellowship. And you refuse flowers and candy. It’s none of the neighbors’ business.

        But us, we want the team to stay together and not rupture this early in the season. Watch and pray.

        Me, I’ll save the “Go to hell’s” for Harry & co until other members of the House wash their hands in Boehner. They’re the ones who have the play the hand out.

    • Even given what they may have been “betrayed” over, I don’t think it would be justified to vote against the deal now, given what they had already swallowed and were willing to vote for, and have the obvious reason for the shutdown be more about an internal GOP squabble rather than how we are so much better than Obama-Reid. We lost the moment to have a meaningful confrontation within the caucus and with the Dems weeks, if not months ago. I think now its best to emphasize the positives of this bill and go forward. In private, the tea partiers need to gain more influence over the strategy going forward which needs to include planning not only for a shutdown over the 2012 budget, but also what we do in week three of the shutdown. But this whole incident says to me that I now lean a bit more toward winning 2012 than thinking we can actually get enough real policy changes before then to save the economy. more later

      • I liken this to a not-so-good junior QB at Clemson looking at a 5-7/6-6 season, with a very good (but untried) prospect waiting in the wings for next season. The good ball coach will try to get all the mileage he can out of the QB…you know. so when they finish 7-5 and get to play Mississippi School for the Deaf in the Chiquita Banana Bowl, the kid comes out as a Sr and makes the freshman dynamo a better QB because he had to work hard to beat him out . Everyone wins all around. That’s good coaching.

        Or the coach can remind the kid everyday that his mother is a better passer and takes a seven month holiday waiting for next season, and take it public on Channel 5. When Boehner screws up he needs to be taken to the closet, but no further. If he lies, I think the freshman can deal with him.

        It’s not our job, at least for 19 months.

        • I would be happy with a lying Speaker if he got better results! smile, but seriously

          The best things to me that we got are that we will force senate dems to vote on issues that could help doom them in 2012.

  5. I believe that Boehner started off with the agreement of the entire caucus that they want to have a floor vote on Obamacare with as much in cuts as possible and riders as well, but on riders, the support in the caucus was not entire.

    I believe that Obama started off with the agreement of the entire D caucus that they wouldn’t allow riders and that only minimal cuts were to be allowed.

    Boehner had to give up the riders to save the Ocare floor vote in order to keep everyone on board. The back and forth on the $ was face-saving for both sides because both sides gave up a lot. But I think Obama gave up more. The election of 2012 will tip in our favor even more once people see who wants to fund healhcare and spend us into oblivion and who does not. We just have to work it.

  6. The Liberals in Washington never passed a 2011 budget, despite the fact that they could easily have done so with controlling the House, Senate and WH. I suggest that the “bi-partisan” Debt Commission Obama insisted on, despite a vote against it’s inception, didn’t quite work out the way Obama and his handlers expected. To date he has ignored most or all of their recommendations. He was never serious about cutting the debt.

    In February, the House Republicans passed a spending cut bill for $61 billion dollars, and they were taken to the cleaners by many because it wasn’t the $100 billion promised during election season. It was utterly stupid for them to make that promise to begin with, unless they foolishly believed that we could have somehow miraculously gained a super majority in the Senate, that could override an Obama veto. There weren’t enough seats up for re-election in 2010 to accomplish that.

    The Republicans in the House have passed bill after bill, including defunding Planned Parenthood, defunding the IRS from enforcing the individual mandate, to defund NPR, to overturn the FCC regulations, to cut funding for federal health exchanges, and most importantly, they passed a bill to completely repeal Obamacare. As far as I know, the only bill passed in the Senate was to get rid of the 1099 requirement included in the Obamacare bill. Don’t know if Obama signed that bill.

    Reid in fact did bring the $61 billion spending cut bill up for a vote, it failed. How about going after the Republicans that voted against that bill? He also brought to a vote, the Liberal bill to cut $6 million from spending, that failed also.

    From what I’ve read, Obama’s DOD sent a directive to the Pentagon, instructing them to classify our military members as non-essential, in the event of a government shutdown. Don’t know when that happened, but, I do know that Gates told our troops in Afghanistan, that if the government shut down, their pay would be delayed. That was a radical departure from the Reagan directive that declared our military members to be considered essential personnel in the case of a government shut down. Even Bill Clinton used that Reagan declaration, and paid our military members, on time, in the 95 government shut downs, in pece time. This President has never displayed the first bit of respect for our military, now involved in three wars, one completely of Obama’s making, and clearly held them, and their family members hostage for political purposes.

    I disagree with Rep. Allen West when he said on an interview, that he was dissapointed with the leadership, in his own party, meaning Boehner, that he had the opportunity to pass a stand alone bill to fund the military through the rest of the year. He said Boehner had 100 days to bring that vote, and pass that bill. How much chance does Rep. West believe there was of Reid even bringing up a bill to fund our military, for the rest of the year, and removing Obama’s, and the Liberals biggest bargaining chip with respect to paying our military, when Obama already declared them non-essential? I find it interesting that Rep. West still voted for the short term bill on Friday night. Will someone please explain to me just exactly how Boehner used our military as leverage, when Obama already declared them to be non-essential. Obama alone had the choice to pay the troops or not. It was completely his choice.

    For those that want to string Boehner up on the nearest tree, I ask, what were the options? Please explain to me just exactly what would have been the better option for Boehner? There have been many saying that the Liberals were itching for a government shutdown. There is no question that there were many Republicans expounding the mantra “Cut it, or shut it.” I’ve read Tea Party after Tea Party comment saying, we have your back Boehner if you just shut it down. I could have gone along with that if Obama didn’t put our military members, and their familes in a hostage situation. I really could care less if Biden had to cut his staff from 75 to 25. I really could care less that the Smithsonian would have been closed. I really could care less that Yellowstone Park would have been closed. I would never, ever agree that our military members, and their families would suffer more than even grandma. Obama’s handlers knew exactly what they were doing when they went against our military. The evil bastage knew that not many would see our military members put in a box.

    Now, the way I see the posts wanting to hang Boehner, and everyone of the Republicans that voted for this terrible deal, is that we should forget the gains we made in the House in 2010. Throw all those disgusting bums out, and let’s start over with a new batch that will honor our demands. Be aware that not only will your feet be held to the fire, you will be in the fire, up to your knees, just in case you think about not doing what we demanded you to do. How exactly does that get us to the majorities we need to have to stop the Progressive march in the US in 2012? If I were one of the newbies in Congress, at this point I’d be asking myself if I want to continue to be a robot.

    • Ok, SEC. Let’s see if I have this right.

      We made gains in the House. All is well, and we should be quite pleased with just whatever the Leader does because he’s, well, you know, a Republican and all. Let us not criticize the conduct of our employees for they know far more than we do about how to do the job we pay them to do than we could ever hope to imagine.

      Sign me up for the blank checks-I’ll sign ’em and go play golf.
      < /snark>

      Seriously though…we can’t just abdicate our responsibility to evaluate their performance, and take them to task when they not only choose NOT to do what we asked…but lie to us and to eachother as they go about not accomplishing what we were promised. Surely you can see that just having gains means nothing if those gains give us more of what we’ve been fed for the past 6 years.

      We don’t need incremental nickel and dime cuts…we need major amputations of monstrous expenditures that are bankrupting our grandchildren. You really think this is the best we can do? Really?

      • haystack- Do you have proof that “they” lied to us short of your timeline scenario? Please address the Obama declaration that our military members are non-essential. Please address the fact that the Republicnans in the House have been remiss in passing bill after bill, only to see no action on those bills in the Senate. Most importantly, please address what you hoped to achieve by a government shut down. What plan was there in place in case the Liberals held on for the long fight, and kept the government shut down. They wanted a shut down, no? Would the Republicans have come out smelling like roses with Reid, and the MSM, making the shut down appear to be only over the PP funding for DC? What number between 61 and 38 billion would you have accepted, or maybe none? Do you think that “standing on principle” and keeping the government shut down would have benefited the Republicans, when military family, after military family would have been used as the scape goats. What part of Rep. West’s admonishment, that the Republican leadership was remiss in not bringing for a vote do you agree with? Do you think the Liberals would have passed a military spending bill, that would have passed the Senate, and would have been signed into law by Obama?

        Rather than just hanging Boehner, and those he fooled into voting with him, what would your alternative plan have been. Please be specific rather than just crucifying Boehner, and those that voted with him on Friday night. I’m really really interested in specifics here. Please tell me what your alternative plan would have been to make a better deal. What would you have done if the Liberals weren’t willing to deal, and every indication is that they weren’t. They would have done everything possible to hang the evil Republicans for the shut down. What if the shut down went for several weeks or months? Would you be willing to hang our soldiers, and their familes out to dry?

        I just want someone to explain to me what plans/scenarios the Boehner hangers would have in place in the case that the Liberals had dug in their heals for the long haul, which they seemed to have done.

        • Well, SEC, your list of questions requires a Doctoral thesis in order to sufficiently answer, due to all the downline effects of any answer I’d give..and all the extenuating circumstances that might arise. I’m going to try it this way instead.

          If, tomorrow, the Federal Government shut down, would you be unable to go to the gas station and fill up your car? Would you be unable to go to work? Would your kids, if you have them, be unable to go to school? Would you not be allowed to go to the grocery store…or the bank…or Starbucks…or call or text your friends and family on your cell phone? Would you be unable to stare at your computer screen and type an email, or a comment at this site or any other? You know the answer to this is, by and large, NO. The Federal Government is not an intimate part of your day to day normal living activities. Nor is it part of mine or anyone else’s…save for the Military and the Diplomat teams spread round the world. But ask yourself this…do you honestly believe that Obama would withhold paychecks to the Military? Really?

          And if he did…play that out in your mind. He has 3 wars – 2 he inherited, and that jumbled mess of his own design in Libya. Do you really think the whole thing just stops…the GI’s and the Embassy employees all around the world just lay down their arms, hand over the keys to the tanks and the jets…or to the embassies and all the data and hardware and comms equipment and all the intel…to our enemies and just load up their duffle bags and start hitchhiking back to the states? And, even if THAT happened…do you really think Obama wouldn’t be up on charges with impeachment proceedings already underway? He simply can not do what you are wringing your hands over. And he wouldn’t. And, there are laws in place to prevent him from allowing our blood and treasure on foreign soil to be just abandoned to the enemy because they have no arms or supplies. Or paychecks. It’s epically silly to think these threats you’ve fallen prey to would ever materialize.

          Not sure if you read my original post closely, but I provide links and named the bill that would have ensured that the troops got paid regardless a government shutdown. It was submitted on March 31…a full week and change before this mess from Friday night. It’s status? “Referred to the Committee on Armed Services, and in addition to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.”

          A little Google love and you’ll find out this bill would have passed the House AND most likely the Senate WELL in advance of this little confab of Boehner’s on Friday night. It was at HIS direction that the bill went to the dark depths of Committee hell, and its fate continues to rest in his hands…and his alone. Had that bill been played before Friday, the Government could have been allowed to shut down and the Soldier’s checks would have continued unabated by poor political leadership on both sides of the aisle and up the street on Pennsylvania Ave.

          So, in answering your question about what would happen and whether there was a plan to deal with a protracted shut down? The plans are all in place at the state level to tend to the needs of their respective citizens. And even if there weren’t step by step instructions on what to do without the Federal Government…how badly do you think you need them in order to function in your daily life anyway?

          In exchange for letting it shut down, the people that don’t pay attention to the mess they’ve helped make by either NOT participating in elections..or voting poorly in the ones they DO participate in….or NOT engaging their Representatives on matters of Legislation that effects us all…would soon learn just how little we need them (the existing form of our Government) after all, and just how much of it can be chopped off at the root so we can focus the money we DO have on the Government we’re long overdue for getting back.

          And I promise it wouldn’t take long-picture the people that would lose their unemployment, their welfare and their food stamps…their Social Security checks and their Medicare, Medicaid, and their part D meds. Think they have phones?

          If you think WE are pissed off…imagine how much more THEY would be. 2 weeks…4 tops…and these morons in DC would get the message in a real hurry.

          And, sorry you want me to cheerlead Boehner, but he doesn’t deserve it-he sold his caucus a bill of goods, and he sold out for far less than he needed to. He is our employee; idolizing Boehner and defending him this way solely on the premise that he is less bad than the alternative is a thing you’ll have to do alone m’lady.

  7. Thank you for your response haystack. The reason I asked the questions that I did was because I knew that you, me and no one else would have the answers to those questions, as the shutdown didn’t occur. Every answer would be guessing and speculation.

    I’m sorry you interpreted my posts as me being concerned about what consequences would have affected me in my personal life. I never gave those ideas the first thought. It isn’t about me.

    Yes, I absolutely believe that Obama would have delayed our military members pay. I’m fully aware that our military, on the battlefield especially, aren’t eligible for furlough. No, I wouldn’t expect any soldier to lay down his weapon on the battlefield and walk away because their pay was delayed. I give much more credit to them for their honor and duty and service to their country than to even entertain that thought. Again, that’s just silly.

    Haystack, we will just have to agree to disagree. I’m not a Boehner cheerleader. It is the incoming members of the 111th Congress that elected him the speaker. I had nothing to do with that. I had nothing to do with the choices of Committee Chairmen, other than to call and beg for some other choices. What I am not willing to do at this time is to go along with throwing him, and the House members that supported his “deal” under the bus. There are much bigger battles that will come up shortly to judge Boehner and the House members on. This was a skirmish, the 2012 budget, and the debt ceiling will be true wars to be fought against those that not only want to destroy the Republicans, but the country itself, and we have seen just how serious they are, and how far they will go to achieve their goals. It may be your choice to draw your line in the sand on Friday’s deal, or even the votes that will happen this week on that deal, but that is not my choice. I quite honestly don’t believe you get anything good out of people you’ve already thrown in the bonfire, that you still need to fight more and bigger battles. What hope do we have of many more gains in 2012 when we’ve already broadcast that the Republicans are nothing but a bunch of losers right out of the gate? I choose not to join in with the Liberals chorus.

    I understand you and I are coming at this from different angles, let’s just respectfully agree to let it there.

  8. Haystack- I kinda owe you a very big apology. Now that the info has been released on just what the “deal” was with the “cuts”, I foolishly argued against trashing Boehner when I believed we really did get cuts. I am now with you, and the outcry against the deal that I didn’t know what it included, which really weren’t cuts at all. I am now squarely in the camp of voting against the deal, and letting the government shut down. Unfortunately, if/when it does happen, it is going to negatively affect the Republicans more than the Democrats.

    I will admit that the biggest part of my arguments have been against going after Republicans because I want so desperately for Obama and his fellow Liberals to lose in 2012, and turning the Republican brand into something akin to evil and bad will not gain us anything in 2012. I am not in support of a third party, and, I especially don’t want the libertarians to overtake the party, mostly the Ron Paul type. How do we get rid of the Boehners and Cantors without giving in to the libertarians? That’s my question.

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