Sunday, September 26, 2021
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D-Day, Omaha Beach for the House Freshmen

Today is a D-Day of sorts for the House Freshman, the day they hit the beach. I have a somewhat contrarian view about how they should hit this beach in our first assault on the occupied territories of Fortress Democrat.

There are two general views about how this assault should occur:

One, sponsored by the Republican House Leadership, (Boehner, Cantor & Co…boo, hiss, boo) is that they should continue cutting the budget in 5-6 billion dollar pieces, in exchange for another, then another, 3-4week Continuing Resolution (CR). Their long term plan is to draw down that promised $100 billion cut in increments, until they come to crunch time and the Debt Ceiling has to be raised or we go into a government shut down, to occur sometime in April-May. These small cuts actually extends that timetable.

At that time, America will still be approximately $600 billion short in breaching the current debt ceiling, which will require another lifting of the debt ceiling, or a shutdown.  Republicans, Tea Parties, conservatives are pretty split as to whether we should raise the Debt Ceiling once again, but the hard policy choices are these: In order to do so we have to get into entitlement spending, and begin cutting there as well as discretionary spending. But we do not yet have the political power (the White House and the Senate) to make such an undertaking, so questions as to whether we have the political will to do this is moot until we can first muster a sizeable enough fleet and army (Senate and White House) to make a final assault on the Democrat Homeland. Right now, all we can do is establish a beachhead.

If we can, the Republican Leadership Plan is that once we reach that day in April-May, having already swiped $30-$40 billion away from the budget, we will be in  a position to go along with a Debt Ceiling increase (which we can always take away in 2 years) in exchange for something really big (as in BIG) such as a Balanced Budget Amendment or an end to Obamacare.

This is the policy as I understand it. The politics behind this policy is that the Dems are split right now on a government shut-down, and are willing give up the budget in small $5 billion increments til the cows some home to keep putting that big vote off, for they don’t really want their names on the wrong side of a major budget vote, and having lost almost all their moral stars to guide their boats in these rough seas, they are not even sure which is the right side anymore.

Analysis: To be sure, the Leadership Plan can fail, but not due to evil intentions UNLESS embedded in the Plan, as it exists between the Leadership and the members, especially the 87 House Freshmen, is a lie….namely that there is a hidden agenda behind the Boehner & Co Plan that the House Freshmen are not being clued in on.

I need to explore the possibilities of this lie, for it is the controlling gambit here, not the money, but I first need to mention 2) the opposing Plan, sponsored more or less by Michelle Bachmann, Allen West, and her Tea Party Caucus, not to be confused with “the tea parties” back home or the many and varied national Tea Parties (who I call, sometimes without humor, the “corporate tea parties”).

Theit view is that they need to make a bigger splash, in part, in order to keep a promise to kick Dem butt and make lots of noise. To them the Leadership Plan is too tepid,  raising in constituents’ minds a more-the-same fear that voters really wanted to be rid of in 2010. They believe that instead of hitting the beach along a 10 miles strip in various sectors, we bunch up and make a mass assault on one beach, all or nothing, and stake our claim to that beach, then try to hold it. We’ll overwhelm them, and after all, that’s why the people elected us. In order to do that they have to vote “No” to the Leadership Plan tonight.

This too is just a plan, a gambit, and again, like the Leadership Plan, arrived at with no evil intentions or private agendas that I can discern.

(About lies and private agendas, understand this: that while the American voters have a right to be cynical, and that cynicism to one degree or another is best expressed by the tea parties, on a purely man-to-man basis, I simply cannot bring myself to call a man a liar, or a thief, to his face or behind his back, until I have some proof of it. I don’t care what the previous occupant of that desk did or said. For when I do, I am putting myself in judgment, not him. That is one sin I have no intention of apologizing for. Every new member of Congress goes there with a blank slate in my book, just as, in the same vein tea party members and leaders, at every level deserve the understanding from me that they are in this war for their country, and not the pursuit of some personal political or power agenda…until proven otherwise.)

Analyzing this Tea Party plan, we already know it can only achieve a symbolic (should I say Pyrrhic victory?) in that the present-president and Senate will kill any major change they send over to him. All they will have established is a marker to build on in 2012, against, as I’ve already stated will  likely be a far more unified Democrat Party. Right now, under the Leadership Plan we are getting actual dollar cuts from the Democrats which we could never get with a straight up or down vote, and the present-president’s signature. What is more likely is that while the Leadership Plan is always going to get Dem support and Reid’s blessings, the Democrats may all come together, just as the Germans would have had we only landed at Omaha, leaving Utah, Sword, Gold and Juno beaches alone.

About the motives behind those two Plans just described.

I’m a big command and control guy. Ike wasn’t elected as Boehner was, but if you will recall, his best general wasn’t on those beaches in France either, and although Bedell Smith never said it straight up, I’m sure it was because Ike didn’t want this particular general standing up at every briefing with a better plan than had already been worked out with his staff. He already had Monty second-guessing everything he did all the way back to Marshall and FDR, so Ike couldn’t afford to have George Patton undermine him in front of his other commanders. So he kept him out of the loop.

Patton wasn’t after Ike’s job, either. He was just a genius who saw the battlefield a bit differently, shall we say, as the ancients might have seen it, and not as a Kansas farm boy might. History proves it was one of Ike’s wisest decisions.

John Boehner was elected to his post. In some respects he owes a higher duty to the people that elected him than Ike did. But in turn he is owed one unbreakable courtesy from them, namely, until proven otherwise, to be presumed to be dealing with the members straight up.

“Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…but no, buster, that ain’t gonna happen twice, you’ll not get a second chance in this business.”

This should be House Freshman motto.

I have no knowledge of any prior dishonest dealings between Boehner and the Members, especially the Freshmen. Let me know if I’m wrong here. But the Freshmen have been briefed on the overall strategy. This I know, and they did grill Boehner pretty tough, and they came away satisfied that he was being honest about the Plan. The rightness or wrongness of the Plan, while still a concern to them, is and always will be subordinated in my mind that, if he’s the Leader, then let him lead…until he does one of a few things; lie, flim-flam, deceive or show cowardice in the face of the enemy, at which time you can turn your little tea Party Caucus or “Freshman Caucus” into a competing power cell instead of interest group.

If Boehner lies to them he’s finished. If he flim-flams them, he’s finished. And if he Bob Michel’s it with a continued course of inaction, a sitzkreig, signalling a fear to make the hard calls or confront the enemy, he’ s finished. And John Boehner knows it. His world is not the same as the world Nancy Pelosi lived in. His reality places a high stock in integrity.

But 60 days in, I don’t think he’s done that yet. And we’ll all know when (or if) he does.

The Republican House and the Tea Parties will have made a big, big mistake if, in going into this vote the Republicans are united and the Democrats split, but come away from it, and the Democrats are united and the Republicans are split.

For inasmuch as the Democrats are trying every way in the world to drive a wedge between the Republicans, this potential wedge seems to be home grown, and much of it coming from the corporate tea parties such as those who painted a target on the Freshmen’s backs even before they were sworn in  by posting their phone numbers.

How to proceed: Man Up, Man to Man

All I can suggest to the freshmen is you deal with your colleagues and your leaders in DC face to face, and leave the corporate Tea Parties and folks back home to us. That is a work in progress, but the scorecard I just laid out is the more important right now. You must stay united, and until shown otherwise, you do stand behind the guy elected to lead you.

 

vassarbushmills
Citizen With Bark On

39 COMMENTS

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39 COMMENTS

  1. Mr. B: While understanding the principle of hiring a man to do a job and letting him do it, still, can you understand the possibility of disillusionment and frustation when after the November elections, during the lame duck session, when the Progressives were grabbing for all they could grab, via legislation, regulation, executive order, fiat, hook and crook, we were treated to approximately 25, 653 articles by conservative writers in this vein:
    “Ha ha ha! The Dems just don’t get it! The Libs just don’t get it! Ha ha ha! Their goose is cooked now, boy! Just wait til the 112th comes in! Ha ha ha!” The point of the elections was not for the Dems and the Libs to get it.

    • I completely understand, Bob. There will be a part II in a couple of days, but while we’re seeing all this develop in sound-byte format these men and women have to look each other in the eye, one by one, before bucking the leadership.

      If in fact Boehner at all are moving out of fear (of a shut down) as Limbaugh believes, we’ll know that soon enough…what? 60-90 days. What we stand to lose by showing the world we’re no longer afraid is to tell the leaders they aren’t really leaders, and divide the House , whiohc means we’ll no longer be able to move as team.

      I know Boehner well enough to know he won’t buck a rising tide, but I don’t know Bachmann or West well enough not to suspect a hidden agenda. My vote this time is with Boehner. That’s all.

  2. I don’t care about motives. I care about action on THE PLAN that We the People gave them. Boehner is speaker due to a votes from those that want ObamaCare repealed and at least $100B in spending cuts this year. Boehner has betrayed the plan the voters gave him on both counts. He should step aside and all those Freshman that don’t break with him should be primaried.

    • I’ll respectfully disagree here, GC. I don’t care as much about a ‘make or break’ moment as I do that we continue to move the ball in the direction we want it to go. So far, based on what I’ve seen and heard on the Hill, we’re moving in the right direction and with a plan.

      I have no love for Boehner but from what I’ve heard, there’s a definite plan to take advantage of the Dems twin fears of alienating their lib constituencies vs alienating the folks back home by incrementaling maneuvering them back into a corner.

      The problem is that we only control one of the 3 levers of power. If Bachmann and King succeed in ‘shutting down the government’, what I haven’t heard from them is “now that you’ve made your point, what’s the next step and how do you plan on getting it past the Senate and the President?”

      They may have one, but I haven’t heard it and experience tells me that it’s always good to already have the next move in mind. It may feel good to topple your opponent’s queen, unless it ends up costing you *your* Queen, a rook and leaves you in checkmate.

      • We risk losing the momentum and a credible threat against ObamaDems by delaying a strong stand till the 2012 budget debate.

        Given that Reid will shut down the government over as little as $20B, we should up the ante to all we want re repeal of ObamaCare etc

        So what is Boehner’s plan after Reid and Obama shutdown the govt over $20B?

        Boehner’s actions are puny and unworthy of the mandate. And given Reid’s stand, even if we ought fear a shutdown blame game (and we don’t), it appears we have no choice but to play the game or surrender sicne we only have one lever of power. So why not be bold given Reid?

        We have one other major lever of power eburke, and that’s called the mandate from the voters in November. We sgould weild it. America hasn’t the luxury of another 70 years of Dem-lite.

        • I understand your frustrations, GC…truly. We’ve been pee’d on so many times and told that it’s rain it’s not even funny.

          But here’s what I understand about what’s going on. The GOP is actually doing in reverse what we get rolled on all the time by the Dems – incrementalism. We keep passing CR’s w/$6 Billion here and $10 billion there and the buttload of Dems in the Senate from Red States are under enormous pressure to vote for the CRs which puts pressure on Bambi to sign them. So we can’t get the $61 in one fell swoop but we can get it one piece at a time.

          When we hit the debt ceiling, our cuts are in place (and yeah, we can argue that they’re not enough but that’s a discussion for another post) and this is where we’ll find out what Boehner’s really made of – after appearing ‘reasonable’ for the last 3 months, he throws the defunding ObamaCare card on the table in return for raising the debt ceiling.

          Now…if he doesn’t follow through, I’m not going to fall over in a dead faint. But at *that* point in time, even *he* can’t be so stupid as to know that he’s just lost any semblence of control over his caucus, and the Freshmen can then play the ‘you screwed us over’ card and introduce the exact same legislation that they’re introducing now. Except now, they’ve got all sorts of cover for it, both within and outside the caucus.

          Obviously, YMMV but that’s how I’m viewing it. I’m willing to wait 30-60 days to do what Bachmann and King want to do now, except 30-60 days from now, Boehner will own the blowing up of the caucus, not tea party adherents.

          • No matter my stand today, I am always open to redemption via future actions that attain the results we need and can attain if we have courage. And after all, can you blame a gamecock for being willing to play chicken with a weak President and repudiated Dems, especially on a shutdown. I still like My and Hugh Hewitt’s selective and preemptive govt shutdown strategy that they rejected over this secret plan. I do not favor playing chicken with the debt ceiling.

            Whether I’m willing to wait 30+ days, Nature and Nature’s God require that I do! smile

          • hey money….I have $10 worth of McDonald’s gift certificates that says Boehner will fold like a cheap suit when the Debt Ceiling confrontation arrives

            no one will take the bet….

            Their Sweet tea is pretty good

    • Motive is everything to me, for I’d rather have men with integrity, honest men, decide wrong from time to time, than to make decisions based on a thimble full of truth and facts and 80% hearsay. You’re suggesting that men who have only been together for 60 days make decisions based on perceptions of what?, cowardice, dishonesty, fraud, among their colleagues that they have not yet personally witnessed.

      That was sort of the point of this, GC.

      There’s nothing they will decide here today that can’t be undone in 3 weeks or at anytime Boehner finally shows his true colors to his colleagues. But If I had known all these things about him you’ve stated I sure wouldn’t have written this piece? smile

      A split in the Party this soon can be irreparable, and considering the timing, for all the wrong reasons. I’m all for splitting up the party between the honest and dishonest once we know who those people are. But I’m not in favor of splitting it up over a plan no one’s read or signed off on. Too many demagogues slip through the seine net that way.

      It doesn’t matter what Boehner does or does not prove to you (or me) but what he proves first to his colleagues in the House. This is a work in progress and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt until they say otherwise or he proves otherwise.

      As for being primaried, most of the freshmen already know they will anyway, so that’s not much of a threat. And Boehner already knows he won’t get my vote, no matter what.

      • I think Boehner and the establishment are splitting the party by their actions re not defunding the Pelosi/ObamaCare annual appropriation, puny cuts of only $61B, etc

        The issue is what will the newly elected members do given the split of the establishment from the promise of the wave election and mandate.

        We risk losing the momentum absent a bold move now, not to mention a lack of credibility in the supposed big strtaegy for 2012 budget.

        I can’t read hearts Vasser. I have to make judgments based on actions. Boehner could have good motives, probably does. Doesn’t matter. Much like the patter of my barber, I really want the hair cut right no matter the patter.

        What matters is what laws the Congress passes. Bad laws got us in the mess. Only good new laws and repeals will fix what ails us.

        Yes, its a work in progress, and my admonitions are trying to cause progress.

        I’m not content to merely whine and wait for 2012 to again vote them out. We just had THE ELECTION of our lifetimes. That won’t be repeated.

        Reid makes clear he will shut the govt down over even $20B in cuts. Therefore, as I said weeks ago, we should prepare for the shutdown and embrace it and get all we can re repealing ObamaCare etc NOW.

        Vasser, you echoed my concerns, along with Rogues’ back in 2010m and early 2011 re the seriousness of the crisis NOW, that can’t wait for more years of elections. Hence the American Drive-In.

        My call for a new Speaker is just the second feature of that Drive-In.

        Tomorrow’s column will follow-up on Boehner’s Brutus-like actions stabbing his We the People Caesars in the back on the Ides of March, 2011. (And that will be in the title and is copyrighted…smile)

        • Every thing you say may be true, GC, and the cock can crow if it turns out to be so. Boehner has no contract with me, and contact with you, but I do know, for a fact, that he has revealed his game plan to the freshmen. The end game. Not the “until next week” plan., If I had to choose between shutting down the government today, versus shutting it down in 6-8 weeks with another 10B in the bank, I’d shut it down in 6-8 weeks.

          I’m just saying he’s being damned with “facts” not yet in evidence, much like a well known Top Cat (TC) tried in his own court of inquisition a few weeks back.

          I always defend the condemnee in those situations, on principle alone. When the facts come in, I’ll be the first one to step up and throw a rock, but until then, include me out.

          • I understand your position, and if the secret plan works to obtain the actual attainable results that other plans (like the preemptive selective shutdown) + courage could have obtained, then Gamecock will be glad to eat crow, rather than, crow!

          • But my damning is all about facts in evidence re rejection of selective shutdown; preeemptively conceding to Dems that he would not allow a shutdown; lying about the inability to cut $100B in the CR; lying about a rule preventing them from de-funding the $100B+ Pelosi rider on ObamaCare; expanding ObamaCare to include veterinary services; the list goes on…

            Not to mention Boehner’s statement last week that the American people were still to ignorant to accept larger cuts.

            A few weeks earlier I had praised Boehner as possible destined to be the greatest Speaker of my lifetime.

            His actions lost me. And there are plenty of non-secret plans that could have been more successful by now than their grand promises for wait till later than begin to sound like the old Brooklyn Dodgers lament of wait till next year.

            Next year is here…

          • I understand, GC, but I don’t think the selective shut down is out of the realm. I liked the idea when first proposed, by you I even think. Everything that was available yesterday is available tomorrow…except maybe the acrimony that this vote has engendered between GOP members, See how that works? It was needless, and quite frankly, hamfisted. Michelle should have teated her cards on this vote, and how nice, might I add, that would have been. It was the wrong time to go public…first let Boehner expose himself if he is so disposed. Remember the old law that one cannot serve God and mammon, and in every case they come to a point where they have to choose. Boehner’s not there…yet…so is still innocent in my eyes. Maybe never even, for he is a quick learner, I’m told.

            The game is still afoot. Just don’t make enemies and lose voters along the way.

      • I have put my life on the line shoulder to shoulder with honest men and will drop everything to stand beside them again, all that’s needed is for them to ask. The difference here is that I know MY honest men would sooner die than turn and run. I have only past performance to judge the GOP by, I’m feeling a little exposed.

  3. Wouldn’t let me reply directly to your comment Mike so I had to move it down here.

    I *totally* get your rationale. And I’m not even saying that it isn’t the one Boehner should’ve followed. But he chose a different path and now, before we let him play out the string and find out if he actually learned anything last November, we set up a confrontation prematurely, IMHO.

    Like I said upthread, if the caucus is going to get blown up, I want it to be crystal clear to all the members of the Republican caucus whose fault it is, and I don’t want that to be us. I have concerns that rather than gaining influence, this tack by Bachmann and King have lessened it.

    But as to your idea of a selective shutdown, I think it’s a fabulous idea as it makes it more difficult for the Dems and their media lapdogs to paint the R’s with the ‘cruel, meanspirited’ brush.

  4. Maybe we need a 2 front assault. A combination of Boehner’s incremental CR’s along with the big spending cut budgets that the Tea Partiers want. Give Obaman and the Dems 3 choices.

    1. The full budget bill with major cuts.

    2. Boehner’s CR with incrementally larger spending cuts.

    3. Government shutdown.

    My guess is they’ll continue to pick option 2. Obama announced that he doesn’t want any more 2 or 3 week spending plans, but I believe he’ll accept them.

    I LIKE Boehner’s approach. The numbers don’t sound very impressive, but we’re getting where we want to go in small steps. I’m OK with incrementalism when cutting the budget. After all, the thing didn’t (mostly) grow in leaps and bounds, it was all the little incremental programs that has built this bloated government. We can dismantle it in the same way if need be (and the incremental approach is more likely to pass).

  5. At some point VERY SOON the incrementalism has to stop, as they will run into the debt ceiling. 4-6 weeks tops. At that time Boehner will be tested. If her’s waiting for a miracle, then heaven help him. If he doesn’t yet know what he would do in a Govt Shutdown, then heaven help him. There are a lot of Dem’s, both of the Cloward-Piven frame of mind, and just good old “let the media sockit to them” frame of mind, who are willing to play that card out. I’m not sure the ripple effect in world markets will be as most expect. But until then he is the elected leader…and remember this, the American people didn’t elect him. His colleagues did. It is his job top lead. If he can’t they, not us, have to get rid of him…or circumvent him. Either way, Boehner has a crossroads in his future very soon, for which he will be remembered for a very long time.

    • Ok Vasser, here is the problem, no matter if the incrementalism achieves the $ puny $100B promise. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Boehner & Cos decision to abide by a supposed rule and not eliminate the Pelosi rider for an annual $100B+ re ObamaCare is FINAL, and not part of this secret strategy? Right? So no matter if their secret strategy is successful, it leaves that monstrosity in place. Right? So, most of our complaints will stand.

      Boehner will be judged by what he actually does and achieves based upon what he ought achieve, and not on his puny terms. And so will ride the fate of all those in office.

      • “Boehner will be judged by what he actually does and achieves based upon what he ought achieve, and not on his puny terms. And so will ride the fate of all those in office.”

        My point exactly, Mike…because Boehner has already been judged. That was the point of my article.

        I admit, it is hard in my scatter-brained writing style to actually be understood sometimes, but my point was relatively narrow. Namely this: Boehner is the elected leader of the House, 60 days in. He was elected by his colleagues, not by you, me, the GOP or even the people of his district. I am a big (read BIG) chain of command guy, being ex-military. You don’t elect a guy general then stab him in the back 60 days in. So far, even the freshmen seem to be going along with what he’s proposing.

        To be sure, what he is proposing may fail. It may not work and certainly may not be what “we the people” expected from this House majority, but all of us “we the people” are not on that same page about that, are we?

        I do know there is another strategy out there, the Bachmann shut-it-down now plan. That might work, and might have worked better. I’ve never been against it. But 1) It is not the ONLY strategy, as some suggest, just one strategy of probably several scenarios, but more importantly, 2) it is not the strategy being proposed by the elected leader of the Members.That matters to me.

        When he fails, if he fails, fine. If he shows cowardice I’ll be the first to pick up a rock. If he lies, likewise. But I’ll not pick up a rock now because both those things have not ocurred, but rather have been imputed with evidence I can’t yet find. I will not pick up a rock simply because he guessed wrong, no more than I would if 1 of a 100 things could go wrong and the Bachmann Plan were to jump the tracks. I’m not willing to execute with a firing squad leaders who simply chose wrong.

        At some time in the not-too-distant future these two “tactical factions” will need to come together in a big way…and if they are not able to because of the unnecessary back-biting going on now with this my- way-or-the-highway stuff…who will history blame…the elected or the un-elected leaders of the House? A failure to lead, or a failure to follow?

        The numbers bear out the Dems are split right down the middle on this. So what happens when (if) suddenly they are unanimous and the GOP is split? I don’t want to see that be a result of this little kerfuffle.

        Let’s keep it little. That’s all I’m saying

        For the record: I’m for primarying every member every election, and my fondest wish is they every winner only win by a 50.1-49.9 margin. That’s how much I want Congress to be afraid of us.

        • Great answer Vasser, and I appreciate it.

          My gripe is with all but about 54 and it seems Boehner has already taken the $100B+ annual Pelosi CR-ObamaCare rider off the table. I already thought the $100B promised cuts was puny. They refused to eliminate many liberal programs like the LSC, etc in committee and amendments. They can’t even cut the low-hanging fruit.

          The Dems have always been going to shutdown the govt unless we agree to unacceptable terms. I wanted to preempt the Dem strategy 6 weeks ago with our own selective shutdown.

          But the bottom line has always been and is now that there will be a govt shutdown unless we cave. Therefore, since it is inevitable, there is no reason not to up the ante to most all we want.

          I hear your inside baseball, and I certainly always stand ready for the redemption of those that have failed, but I think it helps to produce a better result by We the People keeping the pressure on. If they have a secret plan that will wow us later, then fine.

          But i think our plan to keep the pressure on them is what gives us the best chance of results down the road.

          Boehner & Co made the mistake of giving up the shutdown card early on. That was stupid. That signaled weakness on a massive scale to Obama and Reid.

          I have concluded that if our GOP doesn’t not fight for bold action now, that there is no difference between what the Dems want and out Dem-lite, given how great is the debt and economic crisis. In fact, it may be better just to precipitate the inevitable if we don’t fight for the obvious import of the once in a lifetime mandate we got in November.

          more later

          • you are correct

            I saw Eric Cantor on Greta last night..They are Folding on Obamacare

            And we’ll be extremely lucky to even get the 61 billion in cuts

            The Dems are 2 moves ahead in this ugly chess game

          • Mike, I’ve never said your strategy is wrong. Neither have I said the other Boehner strategy is right. But neither will I condemn the proponents of either strategy as low-down cowards, crooks, etc simply because that strategy is opposite my own.

            It’s that sort of language that may blow this whole thing up now. The TP caucus will someday be the center of power in the GOP, but for now, at what, 50 votes, it’s not even a majority. That takes another election and another. Many of the 87 freshman haven’t even signed on, although they like most of the TP agenda. So you’re using this “we the people” stuff a little loosely, excluding at times, even me.

  6. The most clear mandate from the election was the repeal of ObamaCare, and from what I understand now, which is where I live, is that the secret strategy keeps ObamaCare $100B+ richer. So that, they will not redeem themselves with the secret strategy.

    • GC- Our position on repeal is growing even stronger. Just recently, the number that want it repealed was the highest ever. The number that strongly want it repealed is up to about 51%. The longer it goes, the more people are seeing that they don’t like it, and that is affecting them negatively. I believe that that is exactly why so many waivers are being given out temporarily, so it doesn’t negatively affect the 2012 election. All those states and companies know after 2012, those waivers are gone. What is the worse case- it doesn’t get repealed right away, and the time schedule continues. The longer it goes, the worse it gets. A Republican majority, with with garrotes on their necks, is forced to repeal the whole thing after 2012, hopefully with more conservatives elected. The law won’t fully take effect until 2014. It’s not like taking SS, Medicare and Medicaid away from people who have been getting/promised that for years. Just God in heaven don’t ever ever elect Boehner, Cantor and McCarthy near the leadership positions. As Vassar said, those House members are going to know sooner, rather than later, if their leadership screwed them. I’m sure they didn’t plan on just spending 2 years in Washington.

  7. I’m kinda torn on this one. When Rand Paul came out with his $500 billion proposal, I though he was crazy. Now he has lowered it to $200 billion. That will still never fly. The promised $100 billion by the house was going nowhere, as will the $61 billion. Those number won’t get passed by the Senate, and Obama will never see them. If we got 5-7 billion every two weeks, passed and signed by Obama, I’d consider it a gain. There are some other things going on also such as bringing legislation to a vote to stop the EPA and the FCC. They will never get to the O, but the House has been working on those items and more. Is it better to appease the voters by saying well we tried, but it wouldn’t fly? or to get every billion cut that we can.

    I was disappointed yesterday when Boehner complained that the Dems and the WH won’t negotiate with them at all. He said he won’t negotiate with himself. Yooo Hoooo, Johnny, they never will. Time to put the water guns away and bring out the water cannons.

  8. speciallist- Cantor already indicated his position on Obamacare quite awhile ago. He told an audience that the Republicans wanted to keep certain portions of Ocare such as the pre-existing portion, and that children remain on parents policies until 26. He didn’t say he wanted a Republican solution, but that he wanted to keep the Ocare mandate.

    Did you see Cantor being interviewed by Laura Ingraham a few months ago when she filled in for O’Reilly? She took him to the cleaners for saying previously that he didn’t want a full repeal. He just wined and moaned in his nasal voice, and said Laura you know me better than that. She didn’t let up, and it took her quite a while to get him to finally say he wanted a full repeal, which was a lie. On local radio, during the Ocare debacle, he just kept complaining that the Dems weren’t giving the Repubs. a seat at the table in crafting the plan, as the R’s just wanted to help make it better.

    It appears that for Cantor anyway, he still wants his seat at the table with Obama to make Ocare better, rather than to repeal the whole thing and start over. No surprise.

    • Maybe I’m cruel or uncaring or something even worse but…

      Don’t children grow up anymore? Keep them on my policy till they are 26? Why? I got them to 18, I got them through High School, I helped them get a job. Now get out already! Go live your own life fer cryin’ out loud! When do children grow up and assume responsibility for themselves?

  9. I’ve been a little buried the last couple of days, and haven’t quite made up my mind how I feel about the TP Plan v. the Leadership Plan…but I will say this: This is the most cogent discussion of the matter I’ve seen or heard anywhere.

    Happened to catch Representatives Bachman and King (I believe it was) on Hannity radio a couple of afternoons ago, and honestly, if I hadn’t known what they were talking about, I wouldn’t have had a clue what it was they were urging me, as a citizen, to do right then. This is a messaging problem, and I kind of think that the proponents of both plans are suffering from it right now. Folks fear what they don’t understand, and when they get scared, they get angry, and do unpredictable things, which aren’t always the wisest things.

  10. I’m really enjoying this thread…but I can’t help but ask what it is people want, exactly.

    I mean, in the 14th vote of the 112th Congress, the House voted to repeal Obamacare. Whoosh! Campaign promise made! Next?

    Except that repeal is right there, where all the sensible people KNEW it would be…in committee dying a Terri Schiavo death.

    For my money, I want my country back as slowly and steadily as necessary to get it right this time…and with a level of righteous indignation superior to that of the last Majority. Like them, we TOO are hell-bent on winning this battle… but fixing the mess we all helped them make is not going to be done correctly and PERMANENTLY by giving them only 2 months to get it done.

    Governance is not a serial proposition…not a linear progression of events….

    60 days in, and because a bill hasn’t been passed to defund O-Care, we’re going to primary the Leadership? Really? Because they haven’t passed a bill that would be worth just as much as the repeal bill they already passed?

    Come on guys-it took a long time to make this mess-if you think a House Majority, alone, without the help of some Dems in the Senate (and some horse trading for them to get a little of their OWN love) is all that’s necessary, then you don’t know much about how this game is played.

    I’ll take a BBA and a locked Debt ceiling today, for a defunded O-care tomorrow…any day of the week. We get a BBA and we’ll HAVE to defund it…

    Aim big people…aim big.

  11. Strategies on budgeting, appropriations, rules, et cetera are above my pay grade, and I admit to being a chronic worrier. Which is why I was about ready to jump up and volunteer to be a second for the Bantam 🙂 on the duelling ground. Then, of course, a Cooler Head had to weigh in and counsel against haste, and no shots were fired. Now, I can’t comprehend a million, let alone a trillion, but principles strike a chord, so here’s a couple of reasons why I worry. 1. All during the so-called debates over O-care, the primary R position seemed to be “We can’t afford it.” Only when the details began to leak out, principally the ‘mandate’ did the R’s find a principle to hang their hat on. They were all “Me too!” on mandating insurance companies pay for pre-existing conditions. Folks, that’s not insurance. 2. When the R’s were handed a majority and committee assignments were made, the one chairmanship position that was contentious on principle was Energy and Commerce, and not just because of the light bulb issue, and today, Fred Upton is Chairman of Energy and Commerce. Those are two reasons why I worry and why I hesitate to delete The Crowmeister from my friends list on my non-existent Facebook page.

  1. Mr. B: While understanding the principle of hiring a man to do a job and letting him do it, still, can you understand the possibility of disillusionment and frustation when after the November elections, during the lame duck session, when the Progressives were grabbing for all they could grab, via legislation, regulation, executive order, fiat, hook and crook, we were treated to approximately 25, 653 articles by conservative writers in this vein:
    “Ha ha ha! The Dems just don’t get it! The Libs just don’t get it! Ha ha ha! Their goose is cooked now, boy! Just wait til the 112th comes in! Ha ha ha!” The point of the elections was not for the Dems and the Libs to get it.

    • I completely understand, Bob. There will be a part II in a couple of days, but while we’re seeing all this develop in sound-byte format these men and women have to look each other in the eye, one by one, before bucking the leadership.

      If in fact Boehner at all are moving out of fear (of a shut down) as Limbaugh believes, we’ll know that soon enough…what? 60-90 days. What we stand to lose by showing the world we’re no longer afraid is to tell the leaders they aren’t really leaders, and divide the House , whiohc means we’ll no longer be able to move as team.

      I know Boehner well enough to know he won’t buck a rising tide, but I don’t know Bachmann or West well enough not to suspect a hidden agenda. My vote this time is with Boehner. That’s all.

  2. I don’t care about motives. I care about action on THE PLAN that We the People gave them. Boehner is speaker due to a votes from those that want ObamaCare repealed and at least $100B in spending cuts this year. Boehner has betrayed the plan the voters gave him on both counts. He should step aside and all those Freshman that don’t break with him should be primaried.

    • I’ll respectfully disagree here, GC. I don’t care as much about a ‘make or break’ moment as I do that we continue to move the ball in the direction we want it to go. So far, based on what I’ve seen and heard on the Hill, we’re moving in the right direction and with a plan.

      I have no love for Boehner but from what I’ve heard, there’s a definite plan to take advantage of the Dems twin fears of alienating their lib constituencies vs alienating the folks back home by incrementaling maneuvering them back into a corner.

      The problem is that we only control one of the 3 levers of power. If Bachmann and King succeed in ‘shutting down the government’, what I haven’t heard from them is “now that you’ve made your point, what’s the next step and how do you plan on getting it past the Senate and the President?”

      They may have one, but I haven’t heard it and experience tells me that it’s always good to already have the next move in mind. It may feel good to topple your opponent’s queen, unless it ends up costing you *your* Queen, a rook and leaves you in checkmate.

      • We risk losing the momentum and a credible threat against ObamaDems by delaying a strong stand till the 2012 budget debate.

        Given that Reid will shut down the government over as little as $20B, we should up the ante to all we want re repeal of ObamaCare etc

        So what is Boehner’s plan after Reid and Obama shutdown the govt over $20B?

        Boehner’s actions are puny and unworthy of the mandate. And given Reid’s stand, even if we ought fear a shutdown blame game (and we don’t), it appears we have no choice but to play the game or surrender sicne we only have one lever of power. So why not be bold given Reid?

        We have one other major lever of power eburke, and that’s called the mandate from the voters in November. We sgould weild it. America hasn’t the luxury of another 70 years of Dem-lite.

        • I understand your frustrations, GC…truly. We’ve been pee’d on so many times and told that it’s rain it’s not even funny.

          But here’s what I understand about what’s going on. The GOP is actually doing in reverse what we get rolled on all the time by the Dems – incrementalism. We keep passing CR’s w/$6 Billion here and $10 billion there and the buttload of Dems in the Senate from Red States are under enormous pressure to vote for the CRs which puts pressure on Bambi to sign them. So we can’t get the $61 in one fell swoop but we can get it one piece at a time.

          When we hit the debt ceiling, our cuts are in place (and yeah, we can argue that they’re not enough but that’s a discussion for another post) and this is where we’ll find out what Boehner’s really made of – after appearing ‘reasonable’ for the last 3 months, he throws the defunding ObamaCare card on the table in return for raising the debt ceiling.

          Now…if he doesn’t follow through, I’m not going to fall over in a dead faint. But at *that* point in time, even *he* can’t be so stupid as to know that he’s just lost any semblence of control over his caucus, and the Freshmen can then play the ‘you screwed us over’ card and introduce the exact same legislation that they’re introducing now. Except now, they’ve got all sorts of cover for it, both within and outside the caucus.

          Obviously, YMMV but that’s how I’m viewing it. I’m willing to wait 30-60 days to do what Bachmann and King want to do now, except 30-60 days from now, Boehner will own the blowing up of the caucus, not tea party adherents.

          • No matter my stand today, I am always open to redemption via future actions that attain the results we need and can attain if we have courage. And after all, can you blame a gamecock for being willing to play chicken with a weak President and repudiated Dems, especially on a shutdown. I still like My and Hugh Hewitt’s selective and preemptive govt shutdown strategy that they rejected over this secret plan. I do not favor playing chicken with the debt ceiling.

            Whether I’m willing to wait 30+ days, Nature and Nature’s God require that I do! smile

          • hey money….I have $10 worth of McDonald’s gift certificates that says Boehner will fold like a cheap suit when the Debt Ceiling confrontation arrives

            no one will take the bet….

            Their Sweet tea is pretty good

    • Motive is everything to me, for I’d rather have men with integrity, honest men, decide wrong from time to time, than to make decisions based on a thimble full of truth and facts and 80% hearsay. You’re suggesting that men who have only been together for 60 days make decisions based on perceptions of what?, cowardice, dishonesty, fraud, among their colleagues that they have not yet personally witnessed.

      That was sort of the point of this, GC.

      There’s nothing they will decide here today that can’t be undone in 3 weeks or at anytime Boehner finally shows his true colors to his colleagues. But If I had known all these things about him you’ve stated I sure wouldn’t have written this piece? smile

      A split in the Party this soon can be irreparable, and considering the timing, for all the wrong reasons. I’m all for splitting up the party between the honest and dishonest once we know who those people are. But I’m not in favor of splitting it up over a plan no one’s read or signed off on. Too many demagogues slip through the seine net that way.

      It doesn’t matter what Boehner does or does not prove to you (or me) but what he proves first to his colleagues in the House. This is a work in progress and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt until they say otherwise or he proves otherwise.

      As for being primaried, most of the freshmen already know they will anyway, so that’s not much of a threat. And Boehner already knows he won’t get my vote, no matter what.

      • I think Boehner and the establishment are splitting the party by their actions re not defunding the Pelosi/ObamaCare annual appropriation, puny cuts of only $61B, etc

        The issue is what will the newly elected members do given the split of the establishment from the promise of the wave election and mandate.

        We risk losing the momentum absent a bold move now, not to mention a lack of credibility in the supposed big strtaegy for 2012 budget.

        I can’t read hearts Vasser. I have to make judgments based on actions. Boehner could have good motives, probably does. Doesn’t matter. Much like the patter of my barber, I really want the hair cut right no matter the patter.

        What matters is what laws the Congress passes. Bad laws got us in the mess. Only good new laws and repeals will fix what ails us.

        Yes, its a work in progress, and my admonitions are trying to cause progress.

        I’m not content to merely whine and wait for 2012 to again vote them out. We just had THE ELECTION of our lifetimes. That won’t be repeated.

        Reid makes clear he will shut the govt down over even $20B in cuts. Therefore, as I said weeks ago, we should prepare for the shutdown and embrace it and get all we can re repealing ObamaCare etc NOW.

        Vasser, you echoed my concerns, along with Rogues’ back in 2010m and early 2011 re the seriousness of the crisis NOW, that can’t wait for more years of elections. Hence the American Drive-In.

        My call for a new Speaker is just the second feature of that Drive-In.

        Tomorrow’s column will follow-up on Boehner’s Brutus-like actions stabbing his We the People Caesars in the back on the Ides of March, 2011. (And that will be in the title and is copyrighted…smile)

        • Every thing you say may be true, GC, and the cock can crow if it turns out to be so. Boehner has no contract with me, and contact with you, but I do know, for a fact, that he has revealed his game plan to the freshmen. The end game. Not the “until next week” plan., If I had to choose between shutting down the government today, versus shutting it down in 6-8 weeks with another 10B in the bank, I’d shut it down in 6-8 weeks.

          I’m just saying he’s being damned with “facts” not yet in evidence, much like a well known Top Cat (TC) tried in his own court of inquisition a few weeks back.

          I always defend the condemnee in those situations, on principle alone. When the facts come in, I’ll be the first one to step up and throw a rock, but until then, include me out.

          • I understand your position, and if the secret plan works to obtain the actual attainable results that other plans (like the preemptive selective shutdown) + courage could have obtained, then Gamecock will be glad to eat crow, rather than, crow!

          • But my damning is all about facts in evidence re rejection of selective shutdown; preeemptively conceding to Dems that he would not allow a shutdown; lying about the inability to cut $100B in the CR; lying about a rule preventing them from de-funding the $100B+ Pelosi rider on ObamaCare; expanding ObamaCare to include veterinary services; the list goes on…

            Not to mention Boehner’s statement last week that the American people were still to ignorant to accept larger cuts.

            A few weeks earlier I had praised Boehner as possible destined to be the greatest Speaker of my lifetime.

            His actions lost me. And there are plenty of non-secret plans that could have been more successful by now than their grand promises for wait till later than begin to sound like the old Brooklyn Dodgers lament of wait till next year.

            Next year is here…

          • I understand, GC, but I don’t think the selective shut down is out of the realm. I liked the idea when first proposed, by you I even think. Everything that was available yesterday is available tomorrow…except maybe the acrimony that this vote has engendered between GOP members, See how that works? It was needless, and quite frankly, hamfisted. Michelle should have teated her cards on this vote, and how nice, might I add, that would have been. It was the wrong time to go public…first let Boehner expose himself if he is so disposed. Remember the old law that one cannot serve God and mammon, and in every case they come to a point where they have to choose. Boehner’s not there…yet…so is still innocent in my eyes. Maybe never even, for he is a quick learner, I’m told.

            The game is still afoot. Just don’t make enemies and lose voters along the way.

      • I have put my life on the line shoulder to shoulder with honest men and will drop everything to stand beside them again, all that’s needed is for them to ask. The difference here is that I know MY honest men would sooner die than turn and run. I have only past performance to judge the GOP by, I’m feeling a little exposed.

  3. Wouldn’t let me reply directly to your comment Mike so I had to move it down here.

    I *totally* get your rationale. And I’m not even saying that it isn’t the one Boehner should’ve followed. But he chose a different path and now, before we let him play out the string and find out if he actually learned anything last November, we set up a confrontation prematurely, IMHO.

    Like I said upthread, if the caucus is going to get blown up, I want it to be crystal clear to all the members of the Republican caucus whose fault it is, and I don’t want that to be us. I have concerns that rather than gaining influence, this tack by Bachmann and King have lessened it.

    But as to your idea of a selective shutdown, I think it’s a fabulous idea as it makes it more difficult for the Dems and their media lapdogs to paint the R’s with the ‘cruel, meanspirited’ brush.

  4. Maybe we need a 2 front assault. A combination of Boehner’s incremental CR’s along with the big spending cut budgets that the Tea Partiers want. Give Obaman and the Dems 3 choices.

    1. The full budget bill with major cuts.

    2. Boehner’s CR with incrementally larger spending cuts.

    3. Government shutdown.

    My guess is they’ll continue to pick option 2. Obama announced that he doesn’t want any more 2 or 3 week spending plans, but I believe he’ll accept them.

    I LIKE Boehner’s approach. The numbers don’t sound very impressive, but we’re getting where we want to go in small steps. I’m OK with incrementalism when cutting the budget. After all, the thing didn’t (mostly) grow in leaps and bounds, it was all the little incremental programs that has built this bloated government. We can dismantle it in the same way if need be (and the incremental approach is more likely to pass).

  5. At some point VERY SOON the incrementalism has to stop, as they will run into the debt ceiling. 4-6 weeks tops. At that time Boehner will be tested. If her’s waiting for a miracle, then heaven help him. If he doesn’t yet know what he would do in a Govt Shutdown, then heaven help him. There are a lot of Dem’s, both of the Cloward-Piven frame of mind, and just good old “let the media sockit to them” frame of mind, who are willing to play that card out. I’m not sure the ripple effect in world markets will be as most expect. But until then he is the elected leader…and remember this, the American people didn’t elect him. His colleagues did. It is his job top lead. If he can’t they, not us, have to get rid of him…or circumvent him. Either way, Boehner has a crossroads in his future very soon, for which he will be remembered for a very long time.

    • Ok Vasser, here is the problem, no matter if the incrementalism achieves the $ puny $100B promise. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Boehner & Cos decision to abide by a supposed rule and not eliminate the Pelosi rider for an annual $100B+ re ObamaCare is FINAL, and not part of this secret strategy? Right? So no matter if their secret strategy is successful, it leaves that monstrosity in place. Right? So, most of our complaints will stand.

      Boehner will be judged by what he actually does and achieves based upon what he ought achieve, and not on his puny terms. And so will ride the fate of all those in office.

      • “Boehner will be judged by what he actually does and achieves based upon what he ought achieve, and not on his puny terms. And so will ride the fate of all those in office.”

        My point exactly, Mike…because Boehner has already been judged. That was the point of my article.

        I admit, it is hard in my scatter-brained writing style to actually be understood sometimes, but my point was relatively narrow. Namely this: Boehner is the elected leader of the House, 60 days in. He was elected by his colleagues, not by you, me, the GOP or even the people of his district. I am a big (read BIG) chain of command guy, being ex-military. You don’t elect a guy general then stab him in the back 60 days in. So far, even the freshmen seem to be going along with what he’s proposing.

        To be sure, what he is proposing may fail. It may not work and certainly may not be what “we the people” expected from this House majority, but all of us “we the people” are not on that same page about that, are we?

        I do know there is another strategy out there, the Bachmann shut-it-down now plan. That might work, and might have worked better. I’ve never been against it. But 1) It is not the ONLY strategy, as some suggest, just one strategy of probably several scenarios, but more importantly, 2) it is not the strategy being proposed by the elected leader of the Members.That matters to me.

        When he fails, if he fails, fine. If he shows cowardice I’ll be the first to pick up a rock. If he lies, likewise. But I’ll not pick up a rock now because both those things have not ocurred, but rather have been imputed with evidence I can’t yet find. I will not pick up a rock simply because he guessed wrong, no more than I would if 1 of a 100 things could go wrong and the Bachmann Plan were to jump the tracks. I’m not willing to execute with a firing squad leaders who simply chose wrong.

        At some time in the not-too-distant future these two “tactical factions” will need to come together in a big way…and if they are not able to because of the unnecessary back-biting going on now with this my- way-or-the-highway stuff…who will history blame…the elected or the un-elected leaders of the House? A failure to lead, or a failure to follow?

        The numbers bear out the Dems are split right down the middle on this. So what happens when (if) suddenly they are unanimous and the GOP is split? I don’t want to see that be a result of this little kerfuffle.

        Let’s keep it little. That’s all I’m saying

        For the record: I’m for primarying every member every election, and my fondest wish is they every winner only win by a 50.1-49.9 margin. That’s how much I want Congress to be afraid of us.

        • Great answer Vasser, and I appreciate it.

          My gripe is with all but about 54 and it seems Boehner has already taken the $100B+ annual Pelosi CR-ObamaCare rider off the table. I already thought the $100B promised cuts was puny. They refused to eliminate many liberal programs like the LSC, etc in committee and amendments. They can’t even cut the low-hanging fruit.

          The Dems have always been going to shutdown the govt unless we agree to unacceptable terms. I wanted to preempt the Dem strategy 6 weeks ago with our own selective shutdown.

          But the bottom line has always been and is now that there will be a govt shutdown unless we cave. Therefore, since it is inevitable, there is no reason not to up the ante to most all we want.

          I hear your inside baseball, and I certainly always stand ready for the redemption of those that have failed, but I think it helps to produce a better result by We the People keeping the pressure on. If they have a secret plan that will wow us later, then fine.

          But i think our plan to keep the pressure on them is what gives us the best chance of results down the road.

          Boehner & Co made the mistake of giving up the shutdown card early on. That was stupid. That signaled weakness on a massive scale to Obama and Reid.

          I have concluded that if our GOP doesn’t not fight for bold action now, that there is no difference between what the Dems want and out Dem-lite, given how great is the debt and economic crisis. In fact, it may be better just to precipitate the inevitable if we don’t fight for the obvious import of the once in a lifetime mandate we got in November.

          more later

          • you are correct

            I saw Eric Cantor on Greta last night..They are Folding on Obamacare

            And we’ll be extremely lucky to even get the 61 billion in cuts

            The Dems are 2 moves ahead in this ugly chess game

          • Mike, I’ve never said your strategy is wrong. Neither have I said the other Boehner strategy is right. But neither will I condemn the proponents of either strategy as low-down cowards, crooks, etc simply because that strategy is opposite my own.

            It’s that sort of language that may blow this whole thing up now. The TP caucus will someday be the center of power in the GOP, but for now, at what, 50 votes, it’s not even a majority. That takes another election and another. Many of the 87 freshman haven’t even signed on, although they like most of the TP agenda. So you’re using this “we the people” stuff a little loosely, excluding at times, even me.

  6. The most clear mandate from the election was the repeal of ObamaCare, and from what I understand now, which is where I live, is that the secret strategy keeps ObamaCare $100B+ richer. So that, they will not redeem themselves with the secret strategy.

    • GC- Our position on repeal is growing even stronger. Just recently, the number that want it repealed was the highest ever. The number that strongly want it repealed is up to about 51%. The longer it goes, the more people are seeing that they don’t like it, and that is affecting them negatively. I believe that that is exactly why so many waivers are being given out temporarily, so it doesn’t negatively affect the 2012 election. All those states and companies know after 2012, those waivers are gone. What is the worse case- it doesn’t get repealed right away, and the time schedule continues. The longer it goes, the worse it gets. A Republican majority, with with garrotes on their necks, is forced to repeal the whole thing after 2012, hopefully with more conservatives elected. The law won’t fully take effect until 2014. It’s not like taking SS, Medicare and Medicaid away from people who have been getting/promised that for years. Just God in heaven don’t ever ever elect Boehner, Cantor and McCarthy near the leadership positions. As Vassar said, those House members are going to know sooner, rather than later, if their leadership screwed them. I’m sure they didn’t plan on just spending 2 years in Washington.

  7. I’m kinda torn on this one. When Rand Paul came out with his $500 billion proposal, I though he was crazy. Now he has lowered it to $200 billion. That will still never fly. The promised $100 billion by the house was going nowhere, as will the $61 billion. Those number won’t get passed by the Senate, and Obama will never see them. If we got 5-7 billion every two weeks, passed and signed by Obama, I’d consider it a gain. There are some other things going on also such as bringing legislation to a vote to stop the EPA and the FCC. They will never get to the O, but the House has been working on those items and more. Is it better to appease the voters by saying well we tried, but it wouldn’t fly? or to get every billion cut that we can.

    I was disappointed yesterday when Boehner complained that the Dems and the WH won’t negotiate with them at all. He said he won’t negotiate with himself. Yooo Hoooo, Johnny, they never will. Time to put the water guns away and bring out the water cannons.

  8. speciallist- Cantor already indicated his position on Obamacare quite awhile ago. He told an audience that the Republicans wanted to keep certain portions of Ocare such as the pre-existing portion, and that children remain on parents policies until 26. He didn’t say he wanted a Republican solution, but that he wanted to keep the Ocare mandate.

    Did you see Cantor being interviewed by Laura Ingraham a few months ago when she filled in for O’Reilly? She took him to the cleaners for saying previously that he didn’t want a full repeal. He just wined and moaned in his nasal voice, and said Laura you know me better than that. She didn’t let up, and it took her quite a while to get him to finally say he wanted a full repeal, which was a lie. On local radio, during the Ocare debacle, he just kept complaining that the Dems weren’t giving the Repubs. a seat at the table in crafting the plan, as the R’s just wanted to help make it better.

    It appears that for Cantor anyway, he still wants his seat at the table with Obama to make Ocare better, rather than to repeal the whole thing and start over. No surprise.

    • Maybe I’m cruel or uncaring or something even worse but…

      Don’t children grow up anymore? Keep them on my policy till they are 26? Why? I got them to 18, I got them through High School, I helped them get a job. Now get out already! Go live your own life fer cryin’ out loud! When do children grow up and assume responsibility for themselves?

  9. I’ve been a little buried the last couple of days, and haven’t quite made up my mind how I feel about the TP Plan v. the Leadership Plan…but I will say this: This is the most cogent discussion of the matter I’ve seen or heard anywhere.

    Happened to catch Representatives Bachman and King (I believe it was) on Hannity radio a couple of afternoons ago, and honestly, if I hadn’t known what they were talking about, I wouldn’t have had a clue what it was they were urging me, as a citizen, to do right then. This is a messaging problem, and I kind of think that the proponents of both plans are suffering from it right now. Folks fear what they don’t understand, and when they get scared, they get angry, and do unpredictable things, which aren’t always the wisest things.

  10. I’m really enjoying this thread…but I can’t help but ask what it is people want, exactly.

    I mean, in the 14th vote of the 112th Congress, the House voted to repeal Obamacare. Whoosh! Campaign promise made! Next?

    Except that repeal is right there, where all the sensible people KNEW it would be…in committee dying a Terri Schiavo death.

    For my money, I want my country back as slowly and steadily as necessary to get it right this time…and with a level of righteous indignation superior to that of the last Majority. Like them, we TOO are hell-bent on winning this battle… but fixing the mess we all helped them make is not going to be done correctly and PERMANENTLY by giving them only 2 months to get it done.

    Governance is not a serial proposition…not a linear progression of events….

    60 days in, and because a bill hasn’t been passed to defund O-Care, we’re going to primary the Leadership? Really? Because they haven’t passed a bill that would be worth just as much as the repeal bill they already passed?

    Come on guys-it took a long time to make this mess-if you think a House Majority, alone, without the help of some Dems in the Senate (and some horse trading for them to get a little of their OWN love) is all that’s necessary, then you don’t know much about how this game is played.

    I’ll take a BBA and a locked Debt ceiling today, for a defunded O-care tomorrow…any day of the week. We get a BBA and we’ll HAVE to defund it…

    Aim big people…aim big.

  11. Strategies on budgeting, appropriations, rules, et cetera are above my pay grade, and I admit to being a chronic worrier. Which is why I was about ready to jump up and volunteer to be a second for the Bantam 🙂 on the duelling ground. Then, of course, a Cooler Head had to weigh in and counsel against haste, and no shots were fired. Now, I can’t comprehend a million, let alone a trillion, but principles strike a chord, so here’s a couple of reasons why I worry. 1. All during the so-called debates over O-care, the primary R position seemed to be “We can’t afford it.” Only when the details began to leak out, principally the ‘mandate’ did the R’s find a principle to hang their hat on. They were all “Me too!” on mandating insurance companies pay for pre-existing conditions. Folks, that’s not insurance. 2. When the R’s were handed a majority and committee assignments were made, the one chairmanship position that was contentious on principle was Energy and Commerce, and not just because of the light bulb issue, and today, Fred Upton is Chairman of Energy and Commerce. Those are two reasons why I worry and why I hesitate to delete The Crowmeister from my friends list on my non-existent Facebook page.

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